Interestingly on the post about Astro Girl here, a few guys were talking about superheroine peril – y’know the sort of thing: superheroine gets beaten, humiliated, tickled, stripped naked and then sometimes all sorts of bad things.
The topic arose because in the film Astro Girl the trailer makes out that the story starts off quite positively for Astro Girl and she’s sexy, strong, and all the things you’d associate with a superheroine.
Then things take a turn for the worse as she’s hit by some what looks to be kryptonite-laced arrows. Then the bad stuff begins, but it then makes out Astro Girl fights back, beats up the bad guys and then everything then returns to normal.
Now, personally that isn’t my cup of tea. However I KNOW that there’s a lot of people out there into stories moving in that direction. Don’t get me wrong – I sometimes like my superheroines to be arrogant, to beat the men in the story, etc. Sometimes its the other way around and in some stories the girls are sometimes up against it, and sometimes not.
I try and keep the SuperSexyHeroines.com website down to family-rated fun though, and although I get hundreds of requests for comic books, video clips and photos of the girls in all sorts of bother I refrain because the SuperSexyHeroines.com website is not the medium for that. There are lots of other websites out there, all making a LOT of money, for that sort of thing.
So, that’s my stance. I’m personally not into it, but I understand the wants and wishes of others.
The point of this post was to see other peoples reactions because I’ve never really seem a debate about this. I’m not saying we debate about whether its wrong or right: there is no definitive answer for that.
What I would like to hear is other peoples thoughts, and what THEY like about the superheroines genre, what they like about the girls, do you like the girls coming out on top, is it the strength, is it the fact that such a powerful female could be overcome, etc?
– Jon
Perhaps this debate has already gone on too long at the Astro Girl thread. But I remember that when you started this site, it was billed as an alternative to the Peril sites that seemed to dominate the web.
Now I’ve been accused of trying to spoil the fun of the Peril fans. But some of the Peril fans, at least, seem intent on spoiling the fun at sites that don’t cater to them. Here’s a plaint that Kelly Johnston posted at Superwomenmania the other day:
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If the Peril fans want this sort of thing, there are other sites that already give it to them — and they can create more if they so desire. But no, they want Kelly to kowtow to them. If he were to give in to their wishes, it would spoil the fun of the fans the Steeleverse was created for.
A few months ago, Ed Howdershelt, author of the In Service to a Goddess series, tried to post to a feminist forum that had denounced superheroine erotica as mysogynistic, based on Peril sites like Superheroines Demise. The forum moderator refused to accept the post, either because she didn’t believe it or because it served her ideological purpose to tar all superheroine erotica with the same brush. But because the Peril sites are so prevalent, it is easy for casual observers to surmise that Peril sites are the ONLY superheroine sites. This is something that I, quite justifiably, I believe, resent.
I have to make it clear, although it should be obvious, that I have nothing against stories that place our heroines in danger or distress.
“Get your hero up a tree and throw rocks at him,” was one science fiction writer’s advice to other writers back in the forties. There have been such stories here, and in the Steeleverse, and at the Aurora Universe, Superwomenmania and other venues. What I object to is fiction, layouts and videos that obviously REVEL in the suffering and humiliation of the heroines. The basic question is: are we rooting FOR them or AGAINST them?
For some reason, Kelly Johnston’s remarks didn’t save to the above post. Here they are:
Yeah, only a fraction of Steele subscribers are in this forum, but this is where I listen. Not just by advise, but by what I read here in random posts and in stories. I come here because this is where the people who share the same interests and style of characters as me are. And let me tell you, in the superheroine genre, we are few. VERY FEW! The Steele’s get thousands of requests every month that fall in the realm of the girls getting “ass raped” (And sometimes worse) by the villian. The superheroines in bondage/peril fans may be sickos but are legions strong. If I took half of the requests we got from those people, we’d be driving exotic foriegn cars and out picking our new island by now. But that’s not us. The Steele’s we’re born from the imaginations of me and all of you
I enjoy seeing powerful superwomen taking charge and being dominant over everyone and everything else. Seeing them get beaten up and humiliated is not my cup of tea. If it happens to be part of the plot then I hope it is over with quickly and with the superwoman on top in the end. Preferably taking out even more vengeance on the poor schmuck than when it started.
Jon, I’m all for the ‘family’ friendly aspect of your site but I would like to see a little fake blood, fake broken bones, fake burns, etc. in your stories. Not gory ‘horror porn’ that are in todays movies but something to show damage or distress. Good old heat vision is one of my favorites. Something PG-13 to borderline R. Not into the nudity at all. Love your site. Would be interested in AstroGirl only if all the ugly middle parts of her being abused are deleted.
Well I was part of that thread mentioned above, and if it’s your site you can do what you want with it. My opinion is that you are not going far wrong now. When you started out it was the Heroine beating the crap out of some mortal guy villain. Personally I’m not too fussed about that sort of thing because it’s not fair or heroic. Sure you can slap him around a bit for information but when it was running to 4 chapters of the heroine beating seven shades out of some no mark guy I found it a bit distasteful. If you swapped the genders around on those stories it’d be pretty full on. If that was what I really wanted I would go to a female domination site of some kind, plenty of them out there. What I like with most of the recent stories is that the Heroine is challenged, remember, if this were real you’d be sending a Supergirl in to deal with really, really dangerous stuff, not some bag-snatcher, so her safety should be under threat, even to the extent that we’re not sure what the outcome will be. The character can always be revisited to enact her revenge etc.. you could even run polls on it for more interaction.
I really have no problem with fans of peril or any other fetish. It’s fantasy after all, I think their is a HUGE difference between a heroine coming under attack or being endangered on this site and some of the scenes on very perilous sites and that difference is SEX. It’s a line I don’t imagine you are ever likely to cross. For you to be on a par with a sexual peril site you would have to have scenes where when the villainess has the upper hand she grabs the nearest strap-on and shows the heroine who the new queen is, if you’ll pardon my candour. Now you aren’t going to do that and as long as you don’t do that you are really nothing like those sites. At the end of the day it’s all too easy to denounce a fetish that I don’t fully understand. Like it or not female empowerment is a fetish too, which may account for feminists still not being that impressed with it. At the end of the day girls are still dressing up for our enjoyment, they ain’t gonna like that! It’s good that you are having this debate though and personally I think you are giving me what I want 75% of the time, which is not bad.
I like when the heroines are really kicking ass. I typically ignore the peril parts but its probably nessesary for the story to make it more interesting. Some sites seem to be more like sort of hating the idea of a strong woman “put them in there place” kind of mentallity. I feel like they glorify rape and abuse against women. It’s like “a superheroine may look sexy but they can be easily defeated by a man” mentallity. I think its just a bad attitude where women are objectified. though some may argue that seeing men humiliated and enjoying it is sort of like the same thing. It’s just in this society we are conditioned to think men are stronger physically, so to see a woman dominating a man and actually being much stronger than him, that’s what makes it sexy. That’s how I see it. To me raping and beating women is not sexy.
I’ll second Zebra5 on one point: watching the heroines here beat up on pathetic low-lifes, as in (mostly) the earliest comics, was a real drag. There has to be challenge, there has to be drama.
I like to see superheroines in peril. I think it is extremely sexy. However, I do not like to see them stripped, raped and pushed to the limit like some sites do.
The peril that Miss Power and Superwoman ran into on this site was well done and I hope those storylines continue.
I agree, a little peril if necessary, is accetable, provided the superheroine is victorious in the end.
Seeing the heroine destroyed from start to finish by various means which many sites push, is a complete turn off for me. I’ve never understood why then the hapless victim is advertised as some “superheroine” when she is totally thrashed.
Sure, it’s all fantasy, but what I like about this site, is we get to see someone like Miss Power (BTW, Jon, terrific!! gallery this week – more pleeese) do the butt kicking. If someone like her was on the constant receiving end, I sure wouldn’t be a member here.
I am a long time comic book reader and a big fan of female heroes. I enjoy peril in stories because it is facing and overcoming the seeming impossible odds that make the character a superhero. If you read comics or even fantasy or science fiction it is generally the most exciting and interesting when it seems like evil has finally won because you just can’t wait for the rising from the ashes. One of the many reasons Return of the Empire is the best of the six! It is what makes many westerns great. If you have ever seen the movie Tombstone you know what I am talking about. That moment when it looked the darkest and you just knew it was time for the good guys to take names and kick ass! Wyatt Earp: You tell ’em I’M coming… and hell’s coming with me, you hear?… You can never really defeat a Superhero!
I see it this way: a Super Heroine _is_ a Super Heroine. Strong, powerful, intimidating, etc. On the other hand, why do we need a _Super_ Heroine if she’s _never_ tested.
The Wonder Woman shows with Linda Carter consisted mostly of stories that had great potential. Why? In most of those stories she was never really challenged. The Pied Piper episode: Hamlin Rule never faced our heroine with his strongest weapon, his flute. When she faced the taped version of his flute, there was no struggle, she was able to fake being affected.
The Disco Devil (horrible title, horrible setting, great idea for a villain: a contact telepath): the villain was defeated by another contact telepath.
The list goes on and on. I like to see the heroine successfully challenged. A _worthy_ opponent that she has to face and overcome. This was my only disappointment with your site, much too unilateral. I think the heroine should win, most of the time, but I also think that some of the villains out there could be smart enough, or strong enough, etc. to give her a run for her money, maybe even escape, maybe even win on a rare occasion. This would make the story more exciting as you would always be wondering who is actually going to win, will she capture the villain, will he escape, etc.
Lack of predictability and challenging opponents for the heroines to overcome. That’s not only good Super Heroine storytelling, that’s just plain old good storytelling.
H.
I too like some peril, as it adds realism and drama to a story. I don’t get into it when the heroine is humiliated from beginning to end, especially in ludicrous ways. That just turns her into a random girl in a costume, not a superheroine.
BUT, it does bug me when I see certain people (sounding like broken records the last few years) chastise those who enjoy watching more extreme peril, with posts here and elsewhere. They make a logically flawed argument, in essence saying “why would you want to do that to her, you’re an awful person” WHO SAID THEY WANT TO DO THAT TO HER?
Although not my cup of tea, I think I can understand where those who are into that are coming from, because I’m a few ticks down the scale from them in my interests. I’m lucky enough to have a beautiful girlfriend who also enjoys some roleplay in this fetish, including some light peril. Does that mean in a million years I’d ever want to have things we do as “make believe” happen to her for real? No! That would happen to her over my dead body. It is FICTION. I suspect that those into the hardcore peril might say the same thing.
One of the most flawed tactics in debate is to outright dismiss theories/interests/etc. that you don’t understand, by demeaning or distorting them. In my opinion, that’s juvenile.
I must say that the discussion here has been more civil and productive than on the other thread.
If it’s any guidance, one photo story I especially liked at the Mandi Steele site was “The Rescue,” in which at one point Mandi is in peril from the bad guy and has to be saved by the good guy she has saved before. Of course, it helps that there’s some romance blooming….
Its great to hear some personal views on ‘peril’ and in interesting to hear personal definitions of peril.
It seems from the comments above that most readers want to see the heroine challenged in some sort of way, and if that leaves her in pain, unconscious, tied up, etc then thats fine (even good) if relevant within the story.
I think the line that most people (certainly those that like the SuperSexyHeroines.com and Steele sites) draw is what I’d describe the quite a hard torturous scene which introduces nudity, objects and is also irrelevant to the story.
As you may know from my stories on the website, I prefer the heroines to maintain a superheroine status and to display their vast superiority over those around her – sometimes that arrogance can be sexy.
But together with some contributors I think I’ve taken on a lot of new story ideas and developed more story-led comics in which the superheroine may find herself in more trouble, etc.
It is a great post so far to hear the different thoughts on the concepts of peril.
As I said before, I personally don’t have a problem with those sorts of websites, and when I get emails asking me to shoot a really hardcore perilous scene I’m never offended and always reply with a gracious note.
Those sorts of humiliation, rape-style websites are out there and people know where to find them. In terms of production some of them are absolutely fantastic.
And so I take it as a compliment when someone emails and asks for harder content because a) he thinks the website is good, and b) he thinks the superheroines are hot.
Oh, and finally, its good to hear that you think the stories in general are improving!
– Jon
I like to see the the heroine showing her superiority over the villain, I don’t mind her being challenged, as long as she was victorious in the end. I wouldn’t like to see the heroine tied up or otherwise humiliated, I’m not going to criticise anyone who likes that, whatever ‘floats your boat’ it’s just not my thing.
The best stuff you do is the super heroine and the supervillaness. I like them to both be in sexy outfits and the villinaness getting the upper hand until the conclusion where the heroine prevails. Some of your modeling shoots are very hot also. I don’t like the bound heroine thing either. I do like sexy poses and some skin but no close up crotch or ass shots. That seems too distasteful to me. The classic supergirl outfit with the skirt is my favorite outfit. The skirt needs to be uplifted by a strong wind every once in a while though.(lol)
My personal favorite is watching the girl experiment with her powers and test her limits. The heroine VS villainess thing is also pretty hot for me. It incorporates many aspects that everyone can enjoy. In the downside, I’ve seen so many throat-lifts that they are starting to get old to me. The outfit should also be very classy (ie, Superwoman/Superchick), but not skanky (ie, Sonic Girl/Wonder Babe). And above all, absolutely none of that hardcore torture/rape peril. Complete turn off.
A lot of this is just a matter of taste. My favorite costume is Miss Power — it’s SO tight and SO sexy.
As for the rest, let’s be frank. These are super SEXY heroines. We all know what we’d like to be doing with the models, and I’m sure they know it, too. But there’s no need to be gross about it.
And the bottom line for me is that the girls are SEXIER when they’re showing off their powers. I think, “Wow, if only I could make love with a woman like that!”
The ultra-peril stuff — especially that STEEL ANGEL stompfest — is a complete turn-off. I don’t want to have to feel sorry for the heroine, I want to admire her.
The difference is, no nudity or sex. Other than that you need danger to make the story work and it’s important. A real sense of danger will add tension to the story and if you are willing to allow the heroines to lose from time to time (as long as it does not become over the top) it will be beneficial.
It should come across that the criminals and the danger is real and future stories will benefit as you know that it won’t be 7 pages of victory. When they enter danger, you yourself will feel it.
But TV/Movie style defeat/danger and not the content found on other sites.
I certainly don’t care for the “beat up the girl in spandex for 95% of the story” sort of thing. However, I also get bored with the “girl in spandex totally dominating the guy 95% of the story” as well. I’m still on the lookout for a place where the storytelling has some give and take, like the old Batman TV show; A few minutes of superheroine using her powers, then some dastardly trap is sprung. Then, the heroine escapes, and kicks butt. The rare Wonder Woman episode where she temporarily lost her belt (and thus her powers) were fun, especially when she finally got the belt back and cleaned house. But the cleaning house bit isn’t nearly the same payoff without the time spent on worrying about how the heroine is going to escape her temporary setback. The story here where the evil supergirl tricked the villain into giving her powers so she could match the heroine’s strength ALMOST got there.
I too, do not like reading how the Superheroine got raped. Or even some stories where Supergirl is beaten and bile is forced from her. One person has stories that describe that sort of beating in detail. That is quite gory and a big turn off for me. Having the Superheroine victorious in the end is good, but having the villainess escape and hard to capture has the reader wondering the outcome. I like the superheroine being sexually aroused but not raped. That is going a bit too far, that’s why to me, a villainess is more enjoyable to read. A robot like Brainiac makes those stories interesting too. Robots aren’t calculative. They have a set program to overcome and defeat there opponents, not sexual. Another turn off is having the Superheroine in each sequincial chapter becoming more and more looking stupid. Showing them becoming less powerful against their opponents.